announcer: daughters of the american revolution was founded in 1890 and their national headquarters is located a few blocks from the white house. the dar museumo to learn about their 125th anniversary exhibit. we begin with the 1820 four visit to america by revolutionary war hero general lafayette. lafayette was 19 when he came to america to fight in the revolution. he was a french aristocrat. when i talk to students about and i say he was 19, and we think about 19-year-olds today,

what were you like when you were 19? he would probably not fighting in a revolution. he was an interesting individual. his influence with the french helped the revolutionary cause. when he came back in the 1820's, he was invited by president munro for the purpose of remembering the revolution. saw that people are starting to die off, the revolutionaries were starting to leave. lafayette was still a living connection to the revolution. and thise back in 1824 is an amazing tour of what was then the united states, in an era where there were not trains, automobiles.

carriages --s and crossingd carriages the united states, hitting so many places from new york down to charleston. . think it is remarkable . when he comes to the u.s. this is another reason for celebration. , there was a spontaneous outpouring of interest and for the revolutionary war veteran. we were discussing while exhibition, was this an instruction? on,people get instructions lafayette is coming, you need to do this, you need to have a

parade, you need to have a ball. the president didn't send out letters to the governors saying, you need to do something. out in it was outpouring but this of sentiment and people coming in wanting to see lafayette was very much spontaneous. my favorite item relating to areyette and his visit these flippers. these were born to a ball that was held in new york city. they are very fragile. you can see that from the picture. they are linen and silk.

dance andorn just to nothing else. we know who are these slippers, her name was angelica james. it is another wonderful connection that we have the identification to go along. james is connected to these flippers through the story. announcer: you can view all american history programs online. independent media is the oxygen of a democracy. it holds those in power accountable. serve somethere to kind of corporate agenda. --n we cover war and peace goodman of amy

democracy now talks about her book. it will back at the stories and people the show has covered. idea has not changed. the voices of the grassroots around the world. they very much represent the majority of people. concernedople who are about war and peace, about in thisinequality country, about climate change are not a fringe minority, not even a senate majority. a silent majority. tonight at 8:00 eastern on q&a.

author mau vanduren discusses his book. the united states historical society hosted this program. it is about 15 minutes. inutes. this event gives us the chance to try different food, if nothing else. we have a delicacy -- i don't know if it is a delicacy. help yourself, it is a dutch

food. please help yourself. i want to introduce the speaker vanduren. if any of you have gotten a chance to read his biography, you will know that he is an independent scholar. is abrings him here today wonderful demonstration of what independent scholars are capable of in the field of early american history. among his other biographical information, he likes to vacation in virginia. netherlands. the he is not the only valuable input from the netherlands to the united states. , theretitle suggests were many heads and hands

involved in writing the u.s. constitution. .e always harken back in montesquieu. it shows that this is mostly a dialogue with ideas of republicanism that goes further back than that. that is what i hope we can hear more of. there will be time for questions and answers afterward. feel free to open it up. thank you. me? can everybody hear did nobody here me? [laughter]

mau: in the meantime, i will yell. thank you so much for being here. this is going to be much more interesting than the civil disobedience outside. mauame is now vendor in -- vanduren. historian.teur i got interested in the stuff back when i first came to the united states in 1982, following my sweetheart. the book starts with an episode

that goes way back in time. the reason i do that is to show that rules and laws come about for a reason. 100 cc 3000 years ago. does that cave show? it shows that there are people that have developed different skills and if you have different skills, you can trade skills. then the book flies through time, going to western europe and other places. , we come to the shores of the americas and eventually the united states. let's see if this works.

there we go. we have our typical american values. that was the battle cry of the resolution, basically. religion, them of separation of church and state, a free press, and independent judiciary. these are things that we find more or less in our constitution in different forms. how did the constitution come about? james madison did not write the bill of rights immediately, that came later. he saw the need for a better structure for our country. the act of confederation made us somewhat dysfunctional. if you look at it is government, you may think we are still dysfunctional.

that is functionality at the time was really so bad. the states were supposed to work together. they were supposed to trade but they were more working against each other. madison saw the need to do something about that. montpelier. he locked himself in his library in 1780 678 he could study what other countries had done to design a system that would work to us. carefully, we can see him sitting in the library there. he is reading the newspaper, apparently. where did these values come from? .hey came from people when people came to this country very early on in the early 17th

century, they brought with them their families, cattle, tools, furniture. most importantly, what they brought was what was in their heads. what was in their heads were obviously all of the values they had from back home. the various colonies that they settled each reflected those values. see is that one colony, plymouth foundation -- plymouth plantation, was founded by separatists from england, who had also lived in the netherlands. was they picked up their democratic government, freedom of religion, freedom of the

press, freedom of speech. the freedom of religion attracted them in the first place but it also eventually repelled them because they thought there was too much freedom. they were losing youngsters to other denominations, is how it goes, right? the attraction of men and women will make you forget your religion. they decided that they needed to leave. in 1620, they sailed to massachusetts. there is a long story in the book about this, why they ended up in plymouth because it was probably not where they were supposed to go. they introduced all of those values in the colonies. another comedy was the andachusetts bay company

they included their values in their system of government. they were puritans. they had not lived in the netherlands. they were not aware of the was going on there. they came to this country with english values. even though they had a separation of church and state, they also made it very difficult for people who were not puritans to have any say in their government. then there is the new netherlands, new amsterdam, now new york. they brought with them the values they had in the netherlands. all of the touch laws apply -- dutch laws apply to, but it is a property of the dutch east india company. that meant that the corporate

interest trumped -- appropriate word -- trumped the civic interest. .o there is a real conflict the director of the dutch east india company is also the governor of the colony. one interesting thing at the bottom, there are a lot of records -- welcome, find a seat anywhere -- there are a lot of court records that show that slaves were indeed suing their owners for mistreatment. quite interesting. where are we? back -- i am rushing through this a little bit because i am told i only have a half an hour. so, keep your questions for then

. let's go back to massachusetts and see what the effects are of one person who travels through all of these colonies. there are some interesting records about him. he is going to be our forests gump. his name is francis doughty. he arrives in plymouth plantation around 1638. he is the son of a brewer. off with the ran inheritance and his wife and children. he arrived in plymouth plantation, which is interesting because it has changed somewhat already. they had all of these wonderful values but they were under aneat because there was influx of other people into the

company. there were failed colonies to the north, and more rough folks joined them. apparently, he does not experience any problems in plymouth plantation and stays there for five years. then he moves to dorchester near boston. sister followed him from england and is suing him in court for the inheritance. he takes on a position in cohasset, west of plymouth. yet, he doesn't stick to the law very well. drunk andt is a unruly character. lastly, there is a baptism dispute with the local church.

.e is a minister, after all theays if you baptize parents, the children should also be baptized. limits effect and find a p a bout thatrite-u a --bout that. shortly after his appointment, a scout arrives from boston. either they resent to check on francis we do not know, however, trouble came when francis asserted that the children of the baptized also should be baptized. apparently that belief did not go over well with superior to and. they told him that henceforward, he had to conform to. views. francis refused.

he has been preaching this way from the beginning. the boston ministers believe that they were in the right and appealed to the local magistrate judge to intervene and rule in their favor. the magistrate who was secular official ordered the constable to arrest the offending minister. apparently the constable chose to do this during a church assembly and francis was dragged out. and he was case expelled from the colony. so, francis leads. -- leaves. he goes to rhode island and make some friends there, probably because it is a free place.

he decides he doesn't want to stay there. and641, he travels to obama -- he travels to long island. they go to long island and you see there this is an old map we have here -- there you go -- long island, here. new amsterdam is there. here is the hudson river going up. rhode island is to the right there. eventually when he settles , and, he meets a fellow educated lawyer from the who traveled up the as a river where he got a job to

be a police officer in one of the dutch colonies. instead of policing, he is helping the workers, preventing the natives. 1643, he doesn't get his contract extended, so he travels to new amsterdam. ass guy has the same notion francis doughty. they set up a secret partnership after meeting in new amsterdam. they are each joining a group of getle who are trying to more democracy instituted in the colony. the company doesn't like democratic structures because it has to come from the top down. but the colonists who want to

have some influence. a piece ofhey make paper that they send to the state general in the netherlands to influence the state general to tell these governors that they need to institute a more democratic form of government. how are we doing on time? they send the document off to benevolence -- off to the netherlands to the governor is hiring this -- off to the netherlands. the governor is hiring this lawyer to help with the natives because after all, he is so familiar with them. they sign a peace agreement with the governor is so grateful that he gives a land-grant to the lawyer.

a couple of years later, there is a court case. is takingughty somebody to court, suing him for defamation of his oldest daughter, apparently this fellow but it was a song bad and so he is in court. he then meets the oldest daughter and nature takes its course -- they get married and they moved to the place that we now know as yonkers. word whicha dutch means young lord. is basically named after the lawyer. paper isantime, this

in netherlands in the state general more or less agrees that something needs to be done about -- i'm skipping over a few things here so we can have more question-and-answer -- that the governor needs to be recalled and a new governor is coming in. that is a fellow by the name of peter stuyvesant. rule it -- role is still hidden. he moves to flushing, on the northern shore of long island where he becomes a minister.

he was granted limited participation in government. donck is elected to a government board. just when you think things are going away, outside influences are throwing a monkeywrench into the thing. around that time, king charles is taken prisoner by parliament. decides to end once and for all -- and that is when he becomes lord protector. vander donckme, has gone to the netherlands to make his case. he wins the case but a few months later, the english and dutch war breaks out.

allstate general rescinded orders. the whole project is off the table. allowed tok is not return to the colony for a while, so he starts to work on a book about new netherlands, which is really interesting all of thedescribes animals and people that live in that part of the world. vision in the vision is that america should become, just like the netherlands was at that for refugees from all over europe, and that they would have a free government and a lot of the things that we have now. this is pretty revolutionary, 1655.

in the same year, unfortunately, he dies in and indian attack. dead,mocracy project is so he leaves for maryland and virginia. his starter -- his daughter follows him. stay behind. flashing renaissance is quite a unique document. it is a document signed by english protestants in defense of quakers. quakers were despised in those days -- i don't know why, but they were. they were not allowed to participate even in the plymouth colony government, certainly not in massachusetts. they were persecuted just about everywhere, including somewhat

in the dutch colony. it was quite unique that a group of people came together and signed a petition on their behalf to send to the governor. flushing next month to talk about that same event at the house where it was signed. it is still the original house. here.see we flew through this pretty quickly. let's see where we have ended up. daughty goes to virginia. there,fore he gets virginia is basically at war with england. right?eard of this,

weird. the navigation act, the second stipulated that the colonies, the english colonies could only trade with england, not with the dutch. largesth was virginia's trading partner. the dutch were actually the largest trading partner all the way until the 16 70's, the largest trading partner in virginia. the virginians refused, saying they are not going to do that. ,he british sent a fleet arriving in 1652. the virginia governor is asking the dutch to help in the fight. immobilizes 1200 troops.

-- he mobilizes 1200 troops. they sign a treaty. virginia thee give right to tax itself and the king is no longer allowed to tax them. revolutionary. they also grant them a continuation of the democratic government they had ever since the 1620's. he arrives in this particular place and he again becomes a minister. he settles in northampton county. he becomes director of the fiscal church, where he is loved

by some and hated by others. after a while he leaves which seems to be his habit. twice gets married to a widow of ministers of the church. and hes in that circle eventually moves to rappahannock county in six and 62. anyou think that virginia is enlightened place, you may be interested to hear what the governor of virginia had to say. i think god that there are no free schools nor printing, and i hope we shall not have these for 100 years for learning has brought disobedience and sects into the world. and printing has divulged them and libels against the best

government." i think he conveniently forgot that he was a protestant himself only by the virtue of the reformation which, of course, was supported by the printing press and new ideas and so on and so on. but that's how it goes often, huh? all right. then we don't know for sure what happens to doughty. some records say that he went back to maryland. and others say that he -- let's see here. let me read. one source said that francis doughty moved to maryland and he died there. the doughty dna project states that he died in maryland on

march 2nd, 1682. this author has not been able to confirm this. in every colony he visited and this is the significance of our forrest gump. in every colony he experienced the birth, the infancy or the growing pains of virtual republics and saw the development of the rule of law and democracy. he suffered of small mindedness of religious intolerance in massachussetts. lived among the free and learned about the politics of the people of new netherlands and witnessed the government in both virginia and maryland. mostly he followed the foot steps of others but in new netherlands he was briefly a pioneer. he mixed with the movers and shakers and quite literally lived the beginning of what would become the american nation. and so i lifted out this particular episode of the book because it shows a little bit of

how these values arrived here and -- and what we did with them. and of course, the story doesn't end here. and the story doesn't end here. we have civil disobedience going on on the steps of the capitol, i believe. we have protests. we have a socialist running for the presidency. we have a demagogue also running for the -- we have everybody. and that's a good thing. because as somebody said, the american experiment is never finished. we will continue to work on it. and i think that's one of the things that you see the beginning of. not just in this country but in

other countries back in history. let's see if i have anymore wisdom to divulge about that. eventually, we get a constitution. everyone understood that the document was a compromise. we're still fighting over some of these things, right? in the supreme court. the expectation that the convention should provide a more perfect union than under the current articles of confederation proved a powerful argument during the convention. madison repeated the argument in federalist 38 writing. "it is not necessary that the former should be perfect. it is sufficient that the letter is more imperfect," meaning that the old rules were worse than the new ones. they understood that the perfect author was the enemy of the good. many understood that the

documents were of a temporary nature, that future generations would mold it to their needs and there would be groups and individuals to find ways to recruit the constitution's provisions to advance narrow provisions and corrupt the system and gain power for themselves. jefferson suggested that there ought to be a revolution at least every 20 years. have we had one? any questions? >> i'd like to start off. i noticed that each chapter that you begin with a quote from madison's writings and you used the resource of montpellier in the papers. what source does madison himself cite in the writings of european philosophers? >> he actually doesn't cite any sources at all.

but what we do know is the -- we have his notes -- we have that, ok? and i want you to see that, of course. but we have his notes about four or five or six pages that he wrote up of what he studied. the sources are not there. but we do have a list of the books in his library and particularly books that jefferson sent to him from paris when jefferson was ambassador there, or in those days there, they called it minister to paris. and there is also a book list that madison recommended in 1783 for the library of congress

because he was rather disgusted with his colleagues, i can tell you that. he thought they were ignorant, small minded, and he saw a need to educate them. so there's a list of 300 books. that include the french. encyclopedia, that most people couldn't read, but he couldm as could jefferson. and then there is the library list that was reconstructed afterwards of his own library at montpellier. one of his nieces described that you couldn't move. you had to go through the shelves like this. eventually he ended up with some 6,000 books. but you can sort of reconstruct from his books what he read. >> and the dutch revolutions of the 16th and 17th centuries with

part of that study that he did? >> some of the books are about that, yes. yes. >> you talked about the influences of the various countries that the dutch and also the different groups that came, the puritans. can you talk a little bit about how the -- how virginia was influenced in terms of social stratification, bridging of gentlemen, first families and that sort of thing, by the people who colonized virginia. >> stratification in sats, ok, is very old. that existed in europe and in the netherlands just as much as it existed in other places. but as far as a more enlightened

thinking is concerned virginia is a different place. it was originally founded as a military base to attack spanish ships back in 1607. but when the company in england increasingly came under the influence of a fellow called edwin sands who eventually began -- became treasurer of the company, and in those days treasurer of the company was the head honcho of the company, he saw fit to give virginia what was known as the house of burgesses. and he gave them a constitution that was almost entirely a republican constitution. and people in the house of burgesses were elected by virginians probably only property owners because that's the way it was. and virginia stayed a fairly democratic place. does that answer it? >> i was thinking that the other

colonies like the puritans, the quakers, i think they were a little bit more egalitarian. and i think there was this -- there was more of a -- a sense of nobility that sort of there are still remnants of it among the virginians. >> i don't know if this is true or not. but let me throw something out there and see where it goes. i think it may have something to do with slavery with a small group of families, white families obviously were benefiting from two things. first of all, slavery which replaced and ran parallel to the indentured servitude. servitude? is that the right word? and that created a stratification of an inequality.

now, in the northern states, slavery played much less of a role. there were far fewer slaves. there were no vast plantations of -- with tobacco and cotton later on in the south. i don't know. anybody? all right. >> i have a question about how doughty's story came to your attention? how did you first come across him and how did you follow that journey? >> that is just by accident. i read a lot of books. and here i'm reading a book about the history of long island and there is sir francis doughty. and then i read another book about the eastern shore of virginia.

there's a francis doughty, both ministers, same name. few years in between. and you read more and more books and you find more and more references to francis doughty. and then i discovered that i believe a lady in new jersey had done some research and had produced a document on the website. so i stumbled upon him and he had run into difficulty into all those different places.

>> you were talking the corporate versus civic interest of, what was it, the dutch bay company? >> the dutch west india company. >> and of course, we had a number of those all around. we had puritanism in the rise capitalism. but just talk about that a little bit more about that being an influence. >> let me start at the beginning of the corporation. the very first corporation was the dutch east india company. they had a tradable stock, right? it was the first time in history that it was done the birth of

the amsterdam stock market. a lot of the stockholders of that company and later companies like the dutch west india company also had a seat in the estate general that's where the conflict of interests begins. so you have a lot of corporate interest in the -- in parliament if you want to call it that. the construct of having a company own a particular piece

of land in a colony wasn't new actually. it had happened -- no, wait a minute. that may have been the first one. the second -- the second one, it was a little more clear was the massachusetts bay company. the massachusetts bay company owned all the land and all the citizens, all the free men where all stockholders automatically in the company. but the free men were also electing their -- their house -- their -- their government. again. there's a conflict of interest. as soon as you have a conflict of interest, you have people fight over it. we now complain sometimes that campaign finance is causing all the problems in our -- in our government, in our representation. does that answer it a little bit? anybody? yes. >> well, i was interested in your talking about the idea that from the beginning doughty and others saw this as a place for refugees. in terms of other documents, was this sort of moral understanding about what the experiment was going to be? was this fought over during this early -- >> i don't think it was fought over. i will say that it's wonderful to see you. it's been a long time.

>> great to see you. >> i don't think it was fought over in that sense. i think vanderdont was an idealist and the netherlands was a recipient of so many refugees. there were yugonovs, there were lutherans, protestants from poland, and people from everywhere. the refugees moved on and went to america and also south africa, by the way. the yugonovs ended up in south africa which was dutch at the time. so i think vanderdont's idealism was reflected in the book he wrote. the downtrodden, we're familiar with that term, they came to america. i did not end up here as a downtrodden, unfortunately. i can't make that claim. anyone?

>> can i ask, what was the most interesting part of the research to you? >> to me, the most interesting part was queen botild. she was a frankish queen back in the 17th century in paris. she was originally a saxon slave who was traded from english land, who was traded and brought to paris when she was probably about 10 years old. she gets hired by the wife of the mayor of the palace of the frankish kings, and in the

palace while she lives there is, she gets to know the crown prince. old story. they get to know each other, eventually the two get married. they become king and queen. the king, the very young king dies. in those days that usually hand -- happened either through a major illness or poisoning, take your pick. and she becomes queen at a very young age. no, this is a very primitive society. this is a society where there are slaves of different level. and there are very rich people who oversee a lot of land. however, the land is officially communal.

it was owned by a tribe, if you'd like. but it is controlled by the head honchos, the nobility. and so the plight is very bad. together with the help of a bishop in paris and an old, very educated monk, the three of them create a whole new systems of laws and improved the plight of the slaves but most importantly for future generations, they introduced the concepts of private property. it takes away the nobility to an extent, but it gives business a place to settle where they can build their business and they can use the private property at collateral or loans or promises

and so you see from that time on, there is a slow but -- but very distinct development of private enterprise and that private enterprise through what they instituted travels and paris eventually becomes part of burgundy. burgundy conquers the netherlands or inherits. burgundy gets in trouble and all that is left is the netherlands. and with burgundy these trade things came -- these understandings, the private property came to the netherlands and were instituted there. and so you see that already in the 13th, 14th centuries that there is a wonderful development going on in -- particularly along the rivers in these -- in the netherlands and partially in germany and when i say the

netherlands, i include present day belgium because it was part of the same thing. and it led to participatory government because what happens if somebody rules a place they need money. how do you get money? well, you can take it but if you take it then people don't like you anymore and they will do anything to avoid gives it to you. so what you really want is to for your country to become rich so you can tax them. but in order to tax them they want some influence. no taxation without representation. remember that. now, the very first constitution that actually includes the line no taxation without representation was in 1477 in the netherlands. all started with queen botild 700 years earlier. it's fascinating.

so all that is in the book. i may have -- i told you that i actually started out 163,000 years ago. i do that to explain how laws and rules come about. 163,000 years ago in a cave in blombos there were some people living there and they had some skills that differed. they each had different skills. what do you make with skills? you trade them. i make something for you and you make something for me. you can renege and say i got it now and i'm going. you need to have an enforcement mechanism that means that there has to be the rule of law. then i move forward having quickly to queen botild but that is the introduction of the

necessity for these things. anything else? >> if you get your hands on the book -- if you like dickens you'll like this book. thank you because i'm reminded of the historian when we look for. it becomes like doing a genealogy of ideas. you look to see where madison picked up this phrase or that phrase. and one of the nice things i noticed about your book is it broadens the scope so that we're looking for patterns of thought not necessarily explicit adaptation of verbiage really. but over generations people have practiced in the has-beens of thinking something ways, respect for private property and so on and so on. and that's what it is looking at history through a broader sweep. >> i also made it more interesting. there's a description in there. you can call it fiction but it's fiction based on very concrete facts.

but just to make it a little more interesting. so you will particularly enjoy i think botild's journey from england to paris and some others. >> botild started like the downtown abby chauffeur, lady marianne in reverse. if there are no other questions, can we thank him for joining us? >> you kind of caused this. but you talk about the pattern of thinking. did you -- were you able to identify or discover the pattern of thinking that allowed savory in some places and not other

places in the new america? >> economic necessity is a very powerful force, self-interest. i mean, it's easy to be magnanimous if you have no interest in the outcome, right? so i think that play as large role. and don't forget that the slave holders are people that supported slavery found -- well, they found it -- we didn't find it. but they found plenty of justification in the bible. it's hard. >> all right. >> yeah. thank you. >> thank you very much. [applause] >> you're watching american history tv, all weekend, every weekend on c-span 3.

x this weekend on "the on 20ency," he focuses eisenhower's role as a military man and president. here is a preview. >> eisenhower becomes the republican candidate in a very interesting fashion. general tonly former become president in the 20th century. it had been a common practice prior to that. many american presidents, both well-known presidents like ulysses grant, andrew jackson, or george washington had been generals, and people who are maybe not so known, like william henry harrison. there have been many presidents who have been generals. but this tradition had gone.

roosevelt had a military background, but his military experience was that more of a civil servant politician in the navy and not as an admirable -- admiral. it is interesting to imagine what he would have been like. the idea of having a general as president did not seem that implausible to people. america had fought the war with a civilian mail population, many of them turned into soldiers. it had been a national experience. in terms of america's wars, singular early benign and a singular early inclusive experience. entirecan watch the

"americanc-span3's history tv." >> monday on "the communicators," tim winter on the recent report of the 20 years of the content rating system. according to the report, the system intended to protect them from violence and sex on tv has failed. >> there is no show on broadcast television, no series today, that is rated appropriate for anything over the children. tv 14 is the oldest rating, even the most explicit content is rated as appropriate for children to watch. we learned that the tv networks themselves read the codes -- shows and tv advertisers rely on the ratings just like parents do so there is a conflict of interest.